Maybe it's time to bring back some of the 'Old Timers' to show these newbies how to drive a ship! Back in the day....we didn't have a whole lot of $$$ for training either but we got it done one way or another, If a watch stander didn't understand HIS job then they stayed under instruction until they did, there was no RUSHING THROUGH PQS or gundecking ESWS back then. You were either qualified or you weren't ....and if you weren't .................better stand by for heavy rolls! there is no excuse for what happened to these two ships other than complete negligence of their superiors!